Email 221 Feb 22, 3:05 pm
Woodcock to PMO - the media lines for the committee (Tkachuk and CSO) before and after the money was repaid.
Woodcock talks about writing the lines.
"Just following orders, right?" Bayne prods Woodcock.
Woodcock says he was asked to write them, so he did.
Bayne goes through the emails around the lines that were supposed to come from committee.
Bayne and Woodcock spar over changes that were made to be lines (adding "any possible error") - whether they came from Wright or from Duffy.
Later Woodcock sent out the lines without that change to LeBreton, Tkachuk and CSO. Bayne asks why, Woodcock says he thinks that was a mistake and he had to resend them afterwards.
Woodcock wrote to Duffy later to ask him to talk so they can prep. Woodcock describes that as standard.
Woodcock says he was unaware of an email from Duffy to Novak (right before Duffy went on TV) saying he wouldn't admit a mistake.
"I don't recall asking him to admit wrongdoing," says Woodcock.
Bayne gets Woodcock to compare emails 246 and 247. The first being a statement Woodcock (and his "teammates in PMO" as Bayne terms them) came up with and sent to Duffy to be sent to the committee, the latter being the one Duffy actually sent. Woodcock concludes they are verbatim.
Bayne goes to email 458 and subsequent ones in April - surrounding the issue of the media stories that were discussed yesterday (on whether Duffy money had been repaid to committee). PMO decided they would then confirm that publicly (but letting people think it came from Duffy).
Bayne says he has a couple more emails to go through on that area, but the judge decides we'll break now until 1415.
See you then.
We are back.
First off, a scheduling issue.
Bayne informs us (actually, the judge) he will be done this afternoon.
He says he's been informed that other than Gerald Donohue the crown has no other scheduled witnesses for this week.
The ongoing issue for Donohue though, is his health. That would impact the speed at which he would be able to testify and they probably would not be able to finish his testimony before this August chunk.
Holmes says calls were put out to Donohue which he did not answer. Holmes says he hasn't been very keen on testifying so RCMP officers were sent to his house to subpoena him. He said he was to ill to attend, so the crown is considering having him testify by video.
The judge decides that after Woodcock is finished the court will break until its scheduled return in November.
Back to the emails.
485 from Goldy Hyder to Wright on May 1.
Woodcock says he doesn't recall hearing about this from Wright but he did receive the drafted statement contained in the email later on for his review (either by Duffy or Hyder, he can't recall).
Woodcock says he was not aware of this exchange.
Bayne takes us through the ensuing back and forth.
Hyder advised that Duffy stick to the script and refer back to this if there were any questions.
Woodcock still says he wasn't aware of any of these emails but did know that Hyder had reached out to Duffy.
A staffer in LeBreton's office sends lines for the government to Woodcock on May 8.
It includes the line that Duffy did the right hing by paying back the money.
Bayne and Woodcock agree that was what was told to Duffy behind the scenes as well (that by agreeing to the scenario he'd be doing the right thing).
Woodcock agrees to Bayne's question that Wright was a "decisive and commanding leader."
Back to a February 18 email where Wright wrote that he doubted LeBreton's ability to get things done.
He goes over he "public agony" line again.
Woodcock agrees that that is what was written.
Bayne reads from Woodcock's police transcript where he said it was unclear that the party would be paying and that he never asked. He also said he never "turned (his) mind to he source of the funds."
Email 181 - Bayne reads Wright's email forwarding Payne's request that Duffy would be "kept whole." Wright wrote the party was open to paying.
Woodcock agrees with Bayne the words are quite clear on the page. But clarifies he skimmed the email when he read it.
Bayne notes the different between what he told he RCMP to what he admits now are clear words.
Woodcock says the RCMP statement was in reference to the entire period of time he was dealing with the Duffy issue and he wasn't sure where the money came from. That it wasn't something he was concerned about.
Bayne brings us to an email from February 22 (what Bayne now calls television day, in reference to Duffy's appearance on TV to say he'd pay back he money. Bayne previously called that day capitulation day when dealing with Wright) where Wright wrote he'd be speaking with senator Gerstein.
Bayne asks if knowing that the party was ready to pay concerned him.
"It did not at he time. As I said before it was not a significant, it did not seem significant," says Woodcock. But that now he doesn't necessarily agree with that today.
He didn't view it as a misrepresentation at he time, but his focus was on getting the money paid back, he says.
He didn't turn his mind to what the donors would think either.
"So there was no ethical concern...?" Asks Bayne.
"At the time I felt like we were doing the right thing, I felt like it was the truth," explains Woodcock.
Bayne moves to Deloitte asking if it would be improper to try to change he outcome of an independent audit.
Email 291 Wright wrote to CSO about the audit to say that the audit shouldn't have concluded hat Kanata was the primary evidence since Duffy agreed to repay. He told CSO he could use her help in getting it down.
Wright then forwarded that to Woodcock and said there he would ask Gerstein to help as well.
Woodcock replied that he understood.
Bayne describes CSO as a "complete willing puppet of the PMO," given she said in an email she was "already ready to do exactly what is asked."
"That was not my experience," says Woodcock to chuckles from the benches.
"The outcome he PMO is pushing for is for the public report of Deloitte saying we have no more work to do here," asserts Bayne.
Bayne asks about ethical concerns.
Woodcock says his goal was to get Tkachuk to confirm that what the committee swould do was true.
Woodcock says he was concerned that if it crossed an ethical line he would be uncomfortable with it. But he says it didn't get to that point.
Bayne brings us to 308 where Rogers said Gerstein would be meeting would Deloitte.
Woodcock says he did not raise concerns.
Email 311 - more back and forth on working on Deloitte.
It was "Same level of concern that I had previously," says Woodcock.
Bayne calls it a secret attempt to get someone else (Gerstein) to approach the auditors. Which would be different than if Tkachuk had talked to them.
Woodcock says he still had the same level of concern but admits he did not voice said concern.
Bayne continues through the machinations of PMO and Gerstein laid out in the emails.
Woodcock can't confirm if he read all the emails, which Bayne reacts to.
"You don't seem to read any emails!"
Woodcock defends that by saying that Bayne's statement is dramatic but that in fact he did read a lot of emails and can't say for certain which ones he read and which he didn't.
Email 343 Rogers wrote that Gerstein got his contact to agree and the contact would talk to the specific auditor in the case.
"I was uncomfortable," admits Woodcock. But said said he didn't say anything or act on it.
Woodcock says he was uncomfortable with any contact with Deloitte at all.
Two weeks later, in email 355 Wright wrote that they did not have assurance from Deloitte yet.
Woodcock says that he took that to mean they wouldn't get it.
And again, after prodding from Bayne repeats that he was uncomfortable.
Email 366 - March 21
Rogers wrote that he had the details of the Deloitte audit through Gerstein
"Did that trouble you?" Bayne asks, after pointing out the audit had not been released publicly yet.
"This particular email didn't trouble me. In retrospect I understand why it should have," but he says he was used to seeing lots of confidential information.
Woodcock says he recalls seeing emails about Duffy or his lawyer trying to meet with auditors who later wrote back to say it was too late.
Email 154 - Feb 20
Bayne says Wright saw it as his decision whether to "let" Duffy speak to Deloitte or not.
Woodcock notes he wasn't in Wright's head when he wrote the email.
Email 313 - March 6
Wright says Tkachuk will "back off" on urging Duffy to meet with Deloitte.
Woodcock won't do much else but confirm those are the words that are written.
Email 316 - March 6
Rogers wrote he didn't want Payne sending a letter to Deloitte until they got Deloitte to agree with their wishes.
Bayne says in subsequent emails Wright and Novak agreed.
Woodcock said he interpreted it differently - that Novak was agreeing with a different point in the email.
The public benches in the courtroom have thinned considerably. There are only 3 non-journalists/people associated with Duffy here.
Woodcock says he became aware that Duffy was trying to meet with the Deloitte auditors.
Woodcock says that anything that was new or unexpected was "absolutely bad." New development, new discussion, anything.
"It was outside of the predictable world that we'd hoped to live in," admits Woodcock.
Bayne laughs, with that same disbelieving "Ok."
Woodcock describes Tkachuk - "His understanding of events would change from day to day."
Bayne suggests a break and says he'll be able to finish up after that.
Back in 15.
Email 270 - February 27
Woodcock to PMO about a report by Senate internal economy on residency requirements. Woodcock wrote that he thought it was problematic.
Later that day Woodcock wrote that he rewrote it "extensively."
He says now that he provided comments.
Bayne asks whether he wrote that email saying he rewrote it "extensively."
Wright wrote back to say he made changes, including one "they might gag on."
Woodcock said he read that at the time.
Email 282 Feb 27
Woodcock wrote about the committee staff going against their wishes.
He says he wanted a clearer conclusion in the report (which I believe is the report still claimed under privilege by the Senate. That has yet to be ruled on by the judge so details from the report can't be disclosed by Woodcock. That makes the whole conversation vague and confusing.
Bayne goes through a couple more emails including one from LeBreton to Wright where she told him she ordered Duffy not to go around talking up PMO's involvement.
Woodcock later says he "didn't know about statements he didn't know about," including ones that advised Duffy about keeping quiet.
With that, Bayne is finished.
He crown has a re-direct, which Neubauer indicates will be short.
Neubauer brings up the Deloitte audit.
Exhibit 43a, tab 57, pg 227 - March emails
Neubauer points to a statement from Payne - Senator Duffy's lawyer saying the audit on Duffy would be closed.
And the crown is done.
Court will return November 18.